9/2/12
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Whenever we get into an argument, you start attacking my character by
saying that all i ever do is hack and dance. I have never attacked
your interest in writing, or your general drive to "be creative" which
led you to making some of the life decisions you've made based on
those priorities. Your pointing out my interests as a negative aspect
of my person shows a fundamental lack of respect for me as a person.
Don't bother apologizing for this, because you've taken the same line
of attack many times for years, and only now do I realize how you look
at me. Instead, decide whether you want to be with someone like me.
-Sam
saying that all i ever do is hack and dance. I have never attacked
your interest in writing, or your general drive to "be creative" which
led you to making some of the life decisions you've made based on
those priorities. Your pointing out my interests as a negative aspect
of my person shows a fundamental lack of respect for me as a person.
Don't bother apologizing for this, because you've taken the same line
of attack many times for years, and only now do I realize how you look
at me. Instead, decide whether you want to be with someone like me.
-Sam
9/2/12
| | |||
English
Estonian
Translate message
Turn off for: English
I realize this is strongly worded, but I think you need to seriously
consider if you want to be with me, or if you actually just want to me
to change to be someone you want.
-Sam
consider if you want to be with me, or if you actually just want to me
to change to be someone you want.
-Sam
9/2/12
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This is something I really want to address too. I am glad you point this out.
This goes beyond just having different priorities in life, this is a matter of you only want to take care of 3 things in life and nothing else.
I mentioned "hacking-dancing-working" because it always seems hard for you to recognize there's life outside of "hacking-dancing-working".
It was a direct response to your accusation that: "You wanted me to socialize and stuff and I did it but you lied to me because it was not enough..."
Well, two problems with that accusation:
- Just hacking-dancing-working, and then socializing reluctantly because I asked you to is, in fact, not enough. There are other important aspects in life, like family, kids, where to live, and working to support these goals. But you are always angry *at me* because there are other aspects in life. Well I didn't make these rules, life is just like that.
- The issue with "hacking-dancing-working" isn't the fact that your top priorities are those, is the fact that fundamentally you only want to deal with these activities 100% of the time in your life and spend as little time possible doing anything else. Whatever you do outside of "hacking-dancing-working", you do it reluctantly or you blame me for "making you do it".
"You made me do stuff but it's never enough" is an accusation you make of me all the time too, and this is very crucial: in your concept, our marriage should be working just enough to make mortgage payment and pay for food, the other stuff are not necessary. So when I raise the fact that there are other aspects to life, you regard them as unreasonable requests, and you do those things *reluctantly* only because I feel strongly about them.
See my dilemma here? Marriage, by definition, is outside of hacking-dancing-working. But if I mention anything outside of hacking-dancing-working, you regard me as making unreasonable requests. If I point out the fact that life isn't just "hacking-dancing-working", you think I don't respect you or trying to change you. I am trapped.
This goes beyond just having different priorities in life, this is a matter of you only want to take care of 3 things in life and nothing else.
It's like when you are a Design PM, you can maximize your time in design, but you still need to devote a percentage of your time to administration, coordinating people, managing expectations, thinking ahead. The sense I've gotten from you at all time is that you want to spend 100% of your time designing and get really cranky when you are not doing that. When things go wrong, you blame me for making you do the other stuff.
People hang out with friends, people travel to other countries, people need to decide where to live, people need to figure out how to make money to support goals other than "hacking-working-dancing-more"
The fact that you still see the fact that I point out we need to deal with life outside of "dancing-hacking-working" as me wanting to change you shows how much you misunderstand what I've been trying to say and, honestly, what a simplistic model of marriage you have been working with (I may be no better, but that's another thread). I get a strong feeling all the time that you still want to shove our relationship back into the simple and comfortable cocoon we had in college: why don't we just simplify life and work and hack and watch tv all the time and not worry about the other aspects of life, just like the dancers I know?
I am sorry. I can't go back to that. I am too grown for that.
You can say that I lied to you or blame me for changing and making you change. The main question is, does our marriage allow us to grow up together, or does it requires us to stay exactly the same as college for an indefinite time. If it's the latter, it's not a marriage. A marriage is, by definition, composed of many aspects of life. Just because you don't want it to, doesn't mean you don't have to deal with it with me or someone else. Just because we don't want to grow up, and I don't as much as you do, doesn't mean that we are not growing old.
My question is: are you willing to proactively deal with complexity in life outside of "hacking-working-dancing", or are you just dealing unwillingly? If it's still the latter, then we have no business pretending to be in a marriage.
I don't have the strength to drag us to "have a life", then get blamed for "making you do stuff" anymore. Either we agree together what we want to do, then do it (like other couples do). Or we admit we are just faking a marriage.
And that's why I feel like I am having a hard time being with you. Not because I don't want who you are, but because you are reluctant to handle the complexity of marriage and life!
This is a BIG BIG BIG source of my unhappiness: we are just being together, not asking where we are going, what are our goals, how can we work together for the future. Just be together for the sack of being together despite the fact that the "cohabiting" relationship has already died and rotted away many years ago.
Please respond to your thoughts of all of the above. I really do think we need a better model, a more holistic model, than simplistically thinking our problem is only "me not liking you hack and want to change you". To get anywhere, we need to get out of this simple-minded thinking and approach this fundamental problem between us holistically, balancing all aspects of life.
Yes, it's about balance, prioritization and planning ahead for the future. Are you okay with doing that?
For reference, here's chronological history of what we needed to deal with but had conflict about over 12 years of our relationship:
- Year 1-2 (grad school): only needed to hack-eat-play-sleep. were happy and set pattern for the rest of the relationship. Tried to socialize together but couldn't deal with "comparing to others", so we stopped hanging out with other people and since then had no point of reference on how a healthy relationship work for others
- Year 3: flew back and forth between Chicago and Michigan. Didn't foresee problems because we were apart and missed each other. We had no one else in our lives at that point.
- Year 3-4 (Chicago): Started to fight every weekend because I wanted to get grocery and you wanted to hack over the weekend. Start of problem but we didn't see or address it. Unable to communicate. Still no friends.
- Year 5 (Seattle, marriage): Got married without talking about where we want to live or whether we are going to have children in the future. Big mistake. Stressed out about work and helped each other. Unable to communicate about other aspects of life.
- Year 6-8: Got mortgage. Both quit jobs. You started to get very stressed out about mortgage. We spent most of our free time with each other in the condo. I fled back to HK to spend more time in my home town. We vaguely said we'd try to live in both places. No actions done. I "made" you go to Europe for our honeymoon after two years of marriage.
- Year 8-10: I wanted to make friends (actually my mom and dad first mentioned to you that maybe we should extend our social life and I agreed). My family helped paid down the mortgage and I've been paying part of the interest, but still you're still stressed out about mortgage. Unable to communicate. I fled back to HK to spend more time in my home town. I "made" you visit China. No actions done about my want to stay more in HK.
- Year 10-12: I "made" us to go to volunteering. I "made" us to go to Startup Weekend and hang out with friends more. You went along to make me happy, but stopped after some time. You felt like you've changed for me but I was still unhappy. Unable to communicate. No actions done about my want to stay more in HK.
- Year 12: Still no plan of HK or our future. I've had enough and I wanted to get out. Big fights all year long. Unable to communicate till this moment. No agreement on any aspects in life.
See? It has been 12 years. Things bound to change. It's unnatural and unrealistic if they don't. But whenever I talk to you, I feel like I am still talking with that boy I met the first year of grad school: if you don't like my hobbies, don't be with me. We have gone passed that ages ago. We are in the mobile and cloud computing age, not hyperlinked web anymore. In fact, when I am talking about "hacking-working-dancing", I am not talking about hobbies at all. Can you understand this? Can you understanding the complexity of all this?
My question has been always: you can have your hobbies, you can have your dreams, but how are we going to support things outside of those while you support your hobbies and dreams? But whenever I talk about it, I hit a wall.
Maybe you should show this email to your dad. Maybe he could understand more.
I really don't know what to say. I feel so old and so tired.
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